law school bad idea reddit
Press J to jump to the feed. Post job opportunities, advice, or just vent about spending your life in motels in the middle of North Dakota. flailing about in a marginal shadow-realm of near-incompetence. If you plan to stay in O&G then law school is a waste of time and money. Law school admissions is always something of a guessing game, by which I mean that a “sure thing” is a rarity (as a yes or a no), so I’ll be candid here with the understanding that extreme, outlier exceptions do exist: I think you’re going to have to improve that LSAT score before you have a realistic shot at law school. Gap Year Before Law School: Pros and Cons to Keep in Mind. The knowledge is nice. While law school applications have fallen overall, the law schools have not largely responded by cutting classes, but are instead simply cutting standards, making it easier to get in and not solving the problem with overproduction. The rigorous curriculum moves quickly, and you'll be expected to read at least 50-75 pages of dense case law every day in order to keep up. I’m a lawyer who got into oil and gas by running title when I graduated in 2011 from law school and couldn’t find a job at a law firm. I always thought that being an in-house landman/general counsel for a small E&P would be a sweet gig to have. All actual LSAT ® questions reproduced within this work is used with the permission of Law School Admission Council, Inc. (LSAC), Box 40, Newtown, PA 18940, the copyright owner. I'm an undergrad student, and I'm thinking about going to law school after I graduate. You will spend at least a year, probably more like three flailing about in a marginal shadow-realm of near-incompetence without someone looking over your shoulder and correcting your basic mistakes. Law school sucked. Going to a school outside the top14 (with the exception of a T1 regional school with full-tuition) is a bad idea. I have classmates that are serving tables, working construction, and doing odd jobs to get by. I've been told law school is a bad idea from people who 1) have a lot of debt after attending law school and can't find a job, or 2) know someone/people in situation 1. I've always heard that law requires hard work, but a degree generally will get you a job and hard work will get you a high paying job. But, that’s for reasons wholly unrelated to whether or not it improves your admissions chances. Unfortunately I don't have that choice anymore, but you do. This is accurate. I traded really low pay and soul crushing outlook and took a leap of faith. But overall it just seems really tough out there. Pursue a JD if you truly feel like it will give you a different aspect to your expertise that will 100% return on your investment. To do this, you use a real, official LSAT test published by LSAC, the makers of the LSAT test. A place to discuss developments in the law and the legal profession. I had no idea what else to do with my life, so I figured, why not go to law school? On that point... High paying: Legal salaries follow a bimodal distribution. However, I'm started to become a little apprehensive. From what I read on here Oil &Gas is dead and in the next ten years, I will not have a job. I love the law and yet I would never do this again because it has, more or less, screwed me for the foreseeable future. I got in this business in 2017. Why do you think it is a waste of money? I'm glad I did it. The simple fact is that the demand for law degrees is higher than it should be given the post-graduation employment reality.Note also that the JD is an albatross around your neck as far as non-law employment is concerned. Or, you know, if you actually love the law or something. There is no evidence that a law degree necessarily opens doors for high paying jobs and, in fact, I have several friends make $40-$50k as lawyers who cannot afford their student loans. I had a decent but not spectacular GPA in law school (I think around 3.5ish). But whatever you do, DO NOT go into law "just because" or because you think it will open doors somewhere for you. Here is one example from the midst of the worst part of the legal market, in 2011. Law school is freaking expensive, and it’s getting more expensive each year. How to Handle a Law School Application Mistake Address application mistakes ranging from sloppy typos to simple oversights. However, you should know that law schools don’t necessarily look for a criminal justice major when looking over the applications. If you don’t all hope is lost. In case you've forgotten, let us take this opportunity to remind you: do not go to law school. After running title for a broker for about a year, I moved in house as a lease analyst with an E&P company for a little while. But I can tell you without a doubt that the paralegal working for us hourly, who went to a two-year associate's degree program part-time, is in a much better position financially than I am with my seven years of education. From 1989 to 2009, undergraduate tuition rose by 71%. She also says law school hopefuls who are in their senior year of college but don't feel ready to apply to law school shouldn't be afraid to take a gap year between college and law school. Ultimately, Ervin says, the goal of a law school resume is to show you are prepared to hack it in law school and could thrive as a law student. but remember that even a very good clinical program will do very, very little to prepare you for the daily life of an attorney, much less the business side of the profession. I know too many classmates that are hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt with mediocre paying jobs that will never allow them to pay off their loans. I think the companies that have a staff of 1 or 2 landmen are the safest to weather the downturns. While law school applications have fallen overall, the law schools have not largely responded by cutting classes, but are instead simply cutting standards, making it easier to get in and not solving the problem with overproduction. Less students means less money. Every landman that I have spoken to have advised me to stick to land and not go to law school. Where you can get in to law school plays a huge role into your initial ability of scoring a high-paying job at first. Bar passage rates this last cycle were lower than they have been in years. I would guess a very large percentage at my school also have tattoos on their foot/ankle area. Apply yesterday! The reason given is student loans for the same pay. A “Cold” LSAT diagnostic exam is just a simulated LSAT test that you take to see where you are before starting your LSAT prep. If the goal is to go from Landman -> law school -> TO attorney, wouldn’t you make a significant amount of more money? Any advice? I love my job and the work I do. Thus, even if you get a job, odds are you will be making around the average national salary, not several times the average. Law school in general, and 1L year, in particular, are The American Bar Association recently released Standard 509 reports from every accredited law school in the country, and there’s much to be … The site may not work properly if you don't, If you do not update your browser, we suggest you visit, Press J to jump to the feed. I had an attorney I worked with tell me “why would you want to be a lawyer? There’s a lot of buzz about applying early. The only difference is that at a firm, the partner calls you a fucking moron for making what s/he considers basic mistakes, and leaves you to figure out how to do it right ASAP. Sheesh. The FAQ and this post (from 3 years ago), make it seem like going to law school is a terrible idea. Here is another from 2013 - same basic pattern, slightly higher mean. I like land but I also like job stability. At least where I'm from, there are very high-paying jobs for strong performers from strong schools. The legal field is highly competitive with more and more lawyers coming into the field needing work than can find it. The practical advice I give anyone that asks me if they should go to law school is that you should only commit to that path of you get significant financial aid and are confident you can work hard enough to finish near the top of your class. Before you buy a shiny new laptop and start channeling Elle Woods or Denny Crane, I suggest you consider these 5 good and Getting a job: We are drastically overproducing new attorneys right now. If you made just $25k a year, then law school all told costs you $175k. A lot of my friends are in 100k worth of debt making 70-75k from a respectable law school in Texas. 317%! To be honest, having your applications ready to go on day one is not a bad idea. Everything for petroleum landmen working in the oil and gas industry. Cookies help us deliver our Services. Countless hours of study away from my family only to score poorly (in my opinion, against the scores of timed self tests) twice on the LSAT. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts, Here is one example from the midst of the worst part of the legal market, in 2011. but a degree generally will get you a job and hard work will get you a high paying job. LSAC does not review or endorse specific test preparation material, companies, or services, and the inclusion of licensed LSAT content within this work does not imply the review or endorsement of LSAC. I'm an undergrad student, and I'm thinking about going to law school after I graduate. Lawyer here. Go through the LSAT process if you want. By Daniel Waldman , Contributor March 25, 2019 So it's definitely important to consider employment outcomes, COA, location, etc. After all, lawyers get paid so much, right? Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. You will hear about average salaries of $75-80K, but the average is skewed and useless as a result of that skew, because of the weird, non-normal distribution of legal salaries. Basically, in the next ten years, we will put out 2 JD grads for every JD-requiring job in the economy. Which, from the outside, makes law school appealing. An MBA gives you a perspective on business in general while also benefitting your career in O&G. You new-comers got it bad! Only when it came time to actually choose which school was for me did I realize that I liked the IDEA of being an attorney more than anything else. In that same time, tuition at law schools went up 317%. If you are thinking about majoring in criminal justice before law school all the power to you. Here’s why law school is a terrible idea for most people: It’s super expensive. of schools you're considering. $100k in tuition and three years of your life when you effectively can't work. Help! I feel like the same people who said something like that would say landwork is going to be obsolete in 5 years. That last step is key. I went through the whole process of studying for the LSAT for months, applying to law schools, and getting into a few. An MBA from a good program would have probably been a better investment for me. Law School Subreddit - reddit: the front page of the internet I agree with others that a an MBA probably has more value and flexibility. If I couldn't have gotten into a nationally recognized law school, or at least a very good regional school that has good recruiting in its area, I would think twice about going at all. Great answer. Most people who go to law school will fall into that first big hump, not the second spike. The MBA can connect you to other industries anywhere. Worst Advice Ever Given to Law School Applicants Just because you have a 4.0 GPA and a 170-plus LSAT score doesn't mean you're guaranteed a spot at any law school. The system isn't fair to current grads. Do yourself a favor... take your talents back to private industry.”. That's my current career path and I was under the impression that the patent/IP law job market was better than the general law job market. (Photo credit: Wikipedia) The news for would-be attorneys keeps getting worse. Every landman that I have spoken to have advised me to stick to land and not go to law school. You just have to have the stomach to survive project halts, lay-offs and market fluctuations. I got in this business in 2017. The other thing that catches the eye on this graph is that Chicago seems to be going somewhat more for a good 25th percentile GPA instead of a high 25th percentile LSAT. Going to the cheapest law school is good advice. Law school is intense and competitive. And then think about why you want to be a lawyer. So, total up the costs of law school. Is getting a law degree in the US really that bad? New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. In both cases, YOU CAN GO HOME. This describes working at a firm, too. Whether you like your mind-numbing, soul-sucking job is another question... What about Australia? When I worked in admissions at Harvard and NYU law, prospective students often asked me if they should take a gap year before law school during open office hours and recruitment events. Often 0Ls will dig up anecdotes of people who went to a lower-ranked school and ended up doing great. Who knows what might happen a week from now that will prevent you from gettin… Stupid law school. I’m mid-30’s and was stuck in a rut of career progression, 2 work pals suggested I try it out. Debt sucks. Legal education is nice to have. Think about what 3 years without a real job looks like for you. Even more worthless than you think. If I had it all to do over again, I wouldn't have become a lawyer. But the grind was awful and being a lawyer isn't the ticket to the non-stop-success train. Is this wrong? The annual uproar about law school rankings might lead you to believe that the rank of the school you attend is the only factor in determining whether you will become a successful lawyer. Ten things I wish I'd known before becoming a law student | … Maybe some MBA will argue the counter point. This seems to be the beginning of the end for Cooley Law School. Of course, if you bring nothing to the table other than the JD, prospects wife advancement will be limited, but this is true in all industries. I would have finished my aerospace engineering degree. I also know several who do temporary jobs and have a difficult time staying employed. The reason given is student loans for the same pay. If you want to practice law outside of O&G then obviously law school is the way. There are tons of MBA programs that are competitively ranked and allow you to study at night while keeping a day job. Great post and good points. I couldn’t always answer their questions elaborately because the answer isn’t simple. I'll add that this responder is a minority in the fact that he enjoys his job. And I did. I go to a T20 school, and I know a surprising number (~5) of young women who have tattoos on the back of their neck or behind the ear. You will spend at least a year, probably more like three flailing about in a marginal shadow-realm of near-incompetence without someone looking over your shoulder and correcting your basic mistakes, and that's hardly a ticket to long-term financial security. Oh god. Now, I certainly don’t want to lure you into a false sense of security. In one of my previous posts I tackled the criminal justice versus law school question in a different manner. My LSAT is Low – Should I Still Apply to Law School? I would have gone to culinary school. Check here for a list of every actual, official LSAT preptest.. As others will tell you: only go if you absolutely must. And to narrow it down even a little further land work isn’t going anywhere either. Nevertheless, I look back and think about what I wish I knew when I applied for admission to law Thus, going to law school is roughly akin to flipping a coin to see if you'll end up employed. Side note, even for the BigLaw kids on the little spike in that distribution, only 1 out of every 5 of those will still have a BigLaw job after 8 years. I just wish it paid enough to let me get rid of my loans before I retired. Law school is worthless. Maybe I’m wrong but I thought TO attorneys make around 200K? At Georgetown, where I am a third-year law student, tuition runs about $56,000 a … I worked as a landman for a while and recently retired due to the downturn. Only go to law school if you have an overwhelming reason. Everywhere you look online blasts the same ideals: apply as early as you can, apply today! | … Do these statements also apply to patent law? In this post, we explain everything you need to know about taking an LSAT diagnostic exam. I would be a lot less worried about having $100k+ of debt from Stanford than from Cooley. I am serious, and I know this for a fact, as I lost out on more crappy retail jobs than I can tell you because I had to explain why I wanted to sell phones for Radio Shack rather than be an attorney. You might think you want to, but REALLY think about it. From what I read on here Oil &Gas is dead and in the next ten years, I will not have a job. By using our Services or clicking I agree, you agree to our use of cookies. So, which would you rather have, +$175k or a law degree? I agree completely. A 3.83 is a hard GPA to maintain anywhere, and especially at the very strong schools that Yale Law School pulls many of their students from. Come to Europe, get your law degree for next to nothing and have vastly increased chances of scoring a lucrative career. My current salary is modest, but still better than most in my situation. I only ended up at my current law firm because I was family friends with a partner that needed an associate. If you want to work for a major, a JD landman will command a higher salary and quicker opportunity for advancement. A JD is a JD. In the wake of the latest U.S. News rankings, columnist Shannon Achimalbe lists four ( See: Mistakes That Can Keep You Out of Law School. I see people going to law school just to come back and be a Landman, which sounds dumb to me, but I’ve always thought it would be worth if you could land a TO gig. O&G may not be back for 10+ years. Some do well and are working in big law but for the most part, the whole lawyer thing didn’t pan out. There's just as much work, if not more, and more expenses and liability. Also, unlike the medical profession, the bar association prevents market saturation after you have already paid for school. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. First of all, getting things done sooner rather than later gives you breathing room. Law school … I have a law degree. I have a degree from a great school, and I was a lucky one coming out of school with a 80k job. Sweet baby Teddy Roosevelt! So with that said, unless you really really want to be a lawyer, don't go to law school. If you have some other overwhelming reason to learn the law, then go to the cheapest school you can. You can always say "why not go solo and make your own job/salary!" The FAQ and this post (from 3 years ago), make it seem like going to law school is a terrible idea.Is getting a law degree in the US really that bad? I’ve seen nothing happen in the way of technology that tells me the industry is changing anytime soon. Competent JD landmen are still working! Am a recent call from a top tier school. I feel the same. There are tons of us. In class, professors employ the Socratic method, cold-calling on students and asking them to apply legal principles to hypothetical (and sometimes outlandish) sets of facts. I have a decade of experience in property & mineral title. You have to really, really want to be an attorney to be a happy one. I've always heard that law requires hard work, but a degree generally will get you a job and hard work will get you a high paying job. I can't say tattoos behind the neck are a good idea… I'm now really reconsidering law. As I sit here at lunch from my $40k/yr job with no benefits, filling out income-based repayment paperwork that will keep me repaying my loans for the next 25 years, I can tell you which way I lean. Does anyone know of the current situation here? The law school model has been due for collapse for some time. I suppose I really need to learn what I want to do. 22 Reasons Why Going to Law School Is the Best Decision You'll … A law school doesn’t teach you what it’s like to be a lawyer any more than having a niece teaches you what it’s like to be a parent. Bad idea. Remember when automated trucks became a thing a few years ago and people started saying “within 5-10 years there will be no more truckers in the United States”. Basically, you have a large group of people working in the 30-45k range, and a smaller group of people working BigLaw who make 165k. The O&G attorneys I see at events are always jockeying for the same pool of potential clients that keeps getting smaller and smaller with every bankruptcy. From my perspective, an MBA opens doors while a JD closes them. The salary is high enough you can use that time to pay down debt, but lots of post BigLaw jobs still don't pay huge salaries. If you're just trying to be more secure in a land job, I recommend you schmooze the bosses all the way to the top or start your own land company long before you go to law school. Law school is not an inexpensive investment so I decided to go into teaching. Yale is clearly a standout. I got very lucky. First one didn’t pan out, but it’s definitely been worth it. People will presume you're just killing time until a law job comes along. Law takes 3 years, is less portable and more higher risk as you have to pass a bar exam and then are stuck in that jurisdiction unless you want to take another bar exam. Unless, of course, you plan to practice in a particular area of law or a particular geographic region. My advice would be for you to figure out your strengths and interests in a career path and follow those and if they lead you to passionately pursue a legal job then go for it. I’ve been hearing for 15 years now that our time is limited. If the goal is just to transition out of oil and gas, I would advise an MBA over JD. You have the work experience. I agree with this wholeheartedly. Even before the current state of affairs, my office of around 150 lawyers was only hiring 2 or 3 summer associates, and they were the top one or two in their class. Applying to Law School: To Early Decision or Not to Early Decision … I know more people with whom I graduated law school that do a job other than law than I do those who are practicing law. I'm convinced that not going to law school was the best decision I ever made, but I wish I could have been a lawyer. So... yeah. Thanks for the great reply. Although I say that law school isn’t all that bad, it certainly isn’t something that you will be able to coast through without a great deal of effort on your part. And I actually like the law. I don't have a law degree, but if I did, I would try to identify small e&p's with land staff in their retirement age. Dumb applicants also have money. Looks like you're using new Reddit on an old browser.
Hilary Hahn Concerts 2021, Why Is Neptune Blue, Ek Duje Ke Vaaste 2 Sony Liv, Ghost Of Tsushima All Helmets, L1a1 Sporter Magazines, Vivitar Earbuds Manual, Piolo Pascual Transfer To Tv5, Foundations In Personal Finance Chapter 2 Savings Answers,
