vapor barrier under gravel driveway
I noticed what the installer was doing and I questioned him but did not push through asking him to fix the spreading of the vapor barrier before pouting the cement which I regret. This being said, I have a hard time believing that the concrete was dry enough for flooring installation. It makes me wonder if that may potentially be a perfect environment for mold growth. This can allow moisture from the ground to penetrate up through the concrete, resulting in damp conditions. The slab is butted right against the outside wall of the building which is an old wooden country store with the wall opened up that has the normal reach in doors to the inside of store. I am trying to conclude what the best solution is to control the moisture in my crawl. I don’t see much issue with slab degradation. If you are going to do some type of finish, most would recommend a vapor retarder. It’s also a project that can be attempted on your own, … It sounds like you may have a traditional mortar bed installation here. I spoke with the contractor and he said that as long as the water is not touching wood, there’s no concern for black mold on the wood, but I’m afraid we’ll get mold growing on the cement and visqueen and am searching for a solution. Put the boards on the ground in such a way that the longer (4 inch) side is vertical. Thank you in advance for your replies I would call a local building professional to evaluate the situation. You might need an even thicker barrier though if you’re covering material with sharp angles. My understanding is that we need some kind of vapor barrier to protect against radon (even though from my research it seems the Pacific NW has a low radon hazard), as well as needing some means of keeping the cement dry. If Pergo is the finished product, I would start by calling their technical hotline (after quantifying the moisture levels) and asking them for recommendations or guidance. Hello. This could be a distinct possibility. Good luck! Never punch holes in the vapor barrier to allow bleedwater to escape. The vapor barrier can be placed under the subbase, if the building is closed in when the dry subbase material is placed. Vapor retarders are materials that will minimize the transmission of water vapor from the sub-slab support system into a concrete slab. It may not be near the surface, but that doesn’t mean it’s not there. For a foundation on slab, install the vapor barrier under the gravel base. The original hardwood floors 2 1/4″ White Oak were installed on top of 5/8″ plywood which sits on 15# felt as a vapor barrier. Sometimes this is in the fine print, so it’s always best to ask specifically. Your answer helps. i put 6 inches of cement however i did not put any tarp or any vapor barrier underneath the slab . will it help? Plagued with efforescents. It needs to dry and then stay dry to avoid flooring problems. I can’t say whether vinyl planking would be better, but I would at least investigate it. If you're in a cold climate and the subgrade soil is poorly drained, a vapor barrier might be marginally useful. If you are unable to find the answer in their written documentation, I would call their technical center. The membrane can then be covered with your chosen surface or gravel. If you’ve ever had a problem with a basement floor (or any concrete floor), you know the kind of damage that too much moisture can cause. We purchased our home 4 years ago. We installed laminate flooring about 6 years ago and now have a terrible odor. Or are there problems with both of these methods? Michael. Our spring weather seems tailor made for them. I also thought about using a spray foam on the exposed slab and between crevices and on the wood joists in that area, but everything is too wet/ damp. claim is taking care of everything related to reconstruction phase, I think. First and foremost, follow the manufacturer’s recommendations for a proper, warrantable installation…including installing the 6 mil. (we’ve had copious amounts of rain over the last two weeks) They promise that once we get grass down on the ground and the ground is graded we should have no issues with moisture. Thank you. I will try them. Weeds are a huge issue here in Portland. Thanks for the comment. If I pull up floor, lay plastic and put new flooring down is there a risk of mold growing between concrete and vapour barrier? We haven’t had any leaks so we are assuming it is coming up from the concrete. Good luck on the project. i going to put a new slab over it. We have a partial concrete slab that we are planning to subfloor over to make a level floor throughout the house. I did notice that this past summer was extremely hot and humid and there was wet areas on the floor. If there is, the cost to verify would probably be small in comparison to doing a good mitigation system. While a water vapor permeance of less than 0.3 perms is recommended, a higher permeance rate is usually considered acceptable for residential use. !……please help? Vapor barriers have varying degrees of permeability, expressed in perms. Another option will be to use leveling blocks as well. You should only use a vapor barrier if you plan to heat or air-condition your shed. He did not put vapour barrier under cement! Honestly, since you have an engineer who has intimate knowledge of your specific project, I think I would follow their advice. This is why a vapor barrier under concrete is essential. We had the carpet replaced in one bedroom soon after we moved in, and the installer recommended that we keep the underlay as it was a good brand and still very new, but it was never lifted. Thanks for the question. The decision is based on the type of shed you are building and your geographic location. After a drain backup ruined the rug we decided to upgrade with a porcelain 6×24″ tile so our floor could withstand any future pipe issues. However, the vapor barrier under the slab must have a lower degree of permeance than the flooring (or floor covering) above the slab. I would also look to see if potentially doing one of the planking systems that allows for a floating installation may not bring something positive to the table. I had a leak detection done and there was no plumbing issues detected. Previous owner infilled between the columns with stud wall, however never raised the floor. Thanks for the question. I’m not sure I understand your question. It will eventually be turned into a music room with climate control, flooring, etc.. The components of concrete are simple: gravel or limestone, sand, water, cement and certain chemical additives. Please advise. In the old days, not much — just dirt. Hi Jason, I rather suspect that they would have specifications regarding the acceptable levels of slab moisture before you could actually use their products for an application. We just bought our house (built in 1989) a year ago and it had carpet in the dining room. Take care. Looking for a low-mold home isn’t easy or cheap. The contractor I hired to form and pour the slab for my free standing garage has poked holes in plastic I had him put down as a vapor barrier. Thanks. Obviously, there could be other culprits, but these are the two that come to my head immediately. We could find no reason (roof leak, plumbing leak, wall leak, etc.) Thanks so much for this article and sharing your knowledge! We are wanting to replace the flooring. If I had to guess, I would say this has something to do with dewpoint and the surface temperature of the concrete. What would be the best procedure to follow to remedy the issue. Right now all my wood is stacked on top of 3x5 landscape timbers and I have noticed the bottom 2-3 rows of … We are not putting ang flooring down. I would say you are right on track with the thought of mold growth. The sheet would keep the construction water from dissipating into the blotter layer and help it to actually dry from the slab, if given enough time. Now another year later and the defects are showing up in the wood in multiple rooms in the home. Two shorter run areas have screws that we have discovered that are supposedly to keep the floor from buckling and the screws are in about 24 ft runs. I installed carpet two years ago when I moved in. One option to keeping the gravel in place on your drivewway is to use a gravel paver product which prohibits the gravel from migrating, resists rutting and provides a very stable surface. Good luck. We will never sell or distribute your email to any other parties or organizations. We are questioning using a vapor barrier under the concrete and also wire mesh rust bleed through due to using the vapor barrier. A good place to start would be https://www.icri.org/page/ccsmtt_list look for a technician in your state. I hope this helps. Both objects can easily be purchased online. So I do not know if there was a moisture barrier down on the slab, Now 4 years after the carpet was installed l found 3 wet spots about 6″ diameter which have recently appeared on the carpet which I tested with a moisture sensor at over 35% ( thats the highest the meter reads) I suspect that the slab may have cracked and and any moisture barrier may have been compromised. Our luxury vinyl floor was laid directly on top of it. The floor is not even and has lots of peaks and valleys and rough surfaces (since it’s a crawl space that no one walks on, we did not deem it necessary to even out). He claims that in his past jobs that used vapor barriers, he got no cracking in the concrete driveways. The hardening process of concrete is a chemical reaction between the cementing material and water. Thanks for the comment. Question for you. A concrete vapor barrier is any material that prevents moisture from entering a concrete slab. As you are working on the vapor barrier be careful where you step so that there isn't any tears being made in the plastic. Thanks for the comments. After that I think I would be inclined to contact a flooring inspector at NICFI.org to get their unbiased opinion. Concrete is the most widely used construction material in the world. Tried epoxy paint to seal rec.room – blistered in many areas. I am getting ready to strip it for about the fourth time. If no, then you need to utilize a mitigation product that will warrant up to 100% RH and will do so even if an intact retarder isn’t present. Guide to Concrete Floor and Slab Construction, http://www.elitebuilding.com/tile/ref/trowelsize.htm, https://www.tcnatile.com/faqs/71-thick-setthick-bed.html, https://www.concreteconstruction.net/how-to/new-slab-on-top-of-old_o, https://www.stegoindustries.com/stego-wrap-vapor-barriers?hsCtaTracking=d654940e-2168-473c-934d-ed294b689fe3%7C23dd2231-f515-494b-8e7f-b042972bd744, 3 Key Lessons about Moisture from an Old Concrete Floor. The installer says that my moisture level is too high, and doesn’t want to be responsible if it ever warps. We may share your information with our social media, advertising, and analytics partners. It is … Make sure the one you chose covers slabs that DON’T have a vapor retarder below. I would probably want to verify if there is an intact vapor retarder, prior to planning. Thanks for the question. 2). Regarding moving to the walls, I have seen some discussions about this, but I have seen nothing that would lead me to believe, in most cases, this would actually transpire to a level that would cause issues. Jason has 20+ years’ experience in sales and sales management in a spectrum of industries and has successfully launched a variety of products to the market, including the original Rapid RH® concrete moisture tests. However, it was not my intention to use quarter round which means that I would, instead, bring it up behind the baseboard (which of course gets sealed with caulk at the top). Front-line technology produces an extensive line of water repellent products. The builder says they’re going to put a patch over the puncture and lay another sheet of vapor barrier. For some tips on this, see. I am looking to build a camp on a slab. Good Luck. If you continue using our site you consent to our cookies. Our neighbors don’t get dampness and wetness in their garages when it is humid out. Their main use is to melt away snow and ice. Gravel is cheaper than concrete and allows better water drainage and runoff. What are the solutions? We know we will need a moisture barrier, but because of the issues feel we need to use engineered hardwood vs. natural hardwood. Angie, (ls that DryLok?) I see your mention of “epoxy moisture mitigation” in a previous post here, but because the surface is so uneven, I’m not clear on whether that’s an option or not. It is still too wet on the wood near slab under the crawlspace. (949) 325-2035. thank you for your response. The vapor barrier should go directly underneath of the concrete slab. I, personally, have never heard of Drylok, but I can tell you that there are numerous products on the market that can help with issues like you have described. I live in Florida on the west coast. Based on what you have outlined, I would say getting the thickest (within reason) vapor retarder available is going to be your best bet. Hello Jason This eventually fell out of use because it was hard to keep the ‘’blotter’’ layer dry. Copyright © 2021 Wagner Meters|Warranty|Return Policy|Terms & Conditions|Privacy Policy, Why You Should Use Relative Humidity (RH) Testing, Become a Wagner Meters Authorized Distributor, Flooring, Millwork, Furniture and Cabinet Manufacturers, Musical Instrument Manufacturer and Luthiers, Building Restoration and Inspection Professionals, Concrete Vapor Barriers: Everything You Need to Know, Free Download – 4 Reasons Why Your Concrete Is Taking Forever to Dry. If you do tear the plastic, simply tape a new piece over it. When he started working I asked him if he measured the moisture in the concrete and he said no he hasn’t but it doesn’t feel moist. Now we don’t know what to put down. I did use treated sub-flooring this time and covered it with a vinyl plank instead of hardwood. If I wanted to apply the shiplap directly to the slab would I need to install a paint on or plastic vapor barrier, or must I use furring strips? A vapor barrier is a thin plastic sheet taped down under the house that covers the ground and walls inside a crawl space to block out all moisture. My only concern with laying a vapor retarder of that type, on the slab, would be the potential buildup of moisture between the slab and the retarder. This question is usually linked to the type of floor finish being installed, so, what type of finish are you installing on the surface of the concrete i.e. Does my slab need to have a vapor barrier and reinforcement pre pour? I don’t think I should proceed with the pouring of my radiant concrete slab given this situation. the Spillmaster stuff was supposed to prevent mold from coming through yet it seem mold formed right at the seem of the foam and plastic/vapor barrier which is on the living space side of the upper ( the side i walk on) All answers are appreciated. I’m building my own house and I’m at the stage that my main floor has already been poly’ed, styrofoam installed, rebar done and finishing the loop for my radiant heating. Others see vapor barriers as essential and argue that they prevent adhesive failures, retard the growth of mold and mildew, and even prevent certain noxious gasses from entering a building. Just curious if I’d have issues when the shed gets converted with flooring over the concrete down the road if I don’t use a barrier. Vapor barriers are less permeable than vapor retarders. The vapor barrier can be placed under the subbase, if the building is closed in when the dry subbase material is placed. How much difference does the poly make in the strength of the concrete? I have mold issues and am looking for a house. I have a home in West Florida with a detached garage that is a slab on grade. Doing this would also alleviate the question of an expansion joint. was not leveled at all. It appeared the mold had been accumulating far before the water damage took place (I had a minor flood the year before but THOUGHT i remedied the drying and cleaning of the carpet myself). 12 years ago. Sometimes the drying out process is done well enough by accepted insurance practices, but not always food enough to accepted flooring practices. A neighbor asked if we installed a vapor barrier. Although this is not specific to them, they have a recommended installation process for hardwood flooring that utilizes installing plywood on the concrete, prior to the finished product. Good luck. I have no tiling system. It’s a nice double garage and I want to use it more I believe we’re now getting condensation between the plastic and the cement. With the French drains, this may not be as critical, but you will usually see uniform coverage in a vapor retarder. Hello Jason, Pls tell me what are my options? Now we are considering putting some type of barrier between the two, and are toggling between the mvb moisture mitigation product and a moisture barrier underlayment beneath the vinyl. What risks are there to do so? Here are the parameters: Materials can be separated into four general classes based on their permeance: Doing this lets you see what to expect if you did the whole job. Will I have to tear out concrete and start from scratch & be sure to add a vapor barrier, what will be the proper steps to take before pouring the concrete? Nick. Vapor barriers are a way to keep moisture from getting into the concrete. I would recommend talking about your specific project and application with the epoxy manufacturer to ensure the process is to their specifications. Thanks for the comment. FREE ground shipping on orders over $100. Dan, Based on the information, I really can’t answer the question. Hi Jason, I am thinking of installing radiant heating in our basement. However, in case you are parking your RV in the grass, make it a point to include a vapor barrier in between the tires and the ground. A 6-mil (0.006 inch; 152 µm) polyethylene or approved vapor retarder with joints lapped not less than 6 inches (152 mm) shall be placed between the concrete floor slab and the base course or the prepared subgrade where no base course exists.. Roll it with as heavy a machine as you have available. that’s the reason of putting the sheet? Anyone that has had to face a moisture problem with a concrete slab understands the damage that excess moisture can cause. Our Driveway Fabric is a heavy duty textile that increases stability, provides erosion control, and aids in the stabilization of the substrate under your driveway or temporary entrance. Generally, you’ll want to use a low-permeance vapor barrier when you need to protect a slab that’s going to be covered by moisture-sensitive materials like adhesives and floor coverings. The floor level is techinically 15″ above grade the way our yard slopes. In various places around the house we installed a gypcrete leveling course (1/2″ – 5/8″) and then a glued down engineered wood. not even 2 weeks later the entire floor started to buckle. So it shouldn't come as a surprise that a roll of fabric is not going to cure the weed problem. should i cover the cement ground using poly tarp ? Much of what you said I’ll agree with but not the part that water will hurt the concrete. Do not pound form stakes through the vapor barrier. What were the values? Good luck. What do you suggest? They specialize in concrete moisture testing. sir..i need advice does precast earthing pit need vapor barriers…since this considered as non sturctutral concrete dimension is 30cm x30 cm by 20 cm If parts of the slab got cold enough to reach its dew point, I suppose condensation could form, but to have it be spotty is indeed strange. At first it seems so perfect because it keeps your gravel and mulch neatly separated from the soil, BUT it does not stay that way. Thanks for the questions. However, they can’t stop water in vapor form from reaching and entering a concrete slab. Today I was sitting in a chair, cleaning tools and putting them in the toolbox… I felt somewhat of a movement, and then my chair began to rock, I kept hearing cracking noises and the floor under me began to lift my chair up. If the subbase is sharp angular gravel, a thin layer of sand can be placed on top of the gravel subbase next to the vapor barrier. Different areas have different building requirements. I hope this helps. They should be able to verify the existence of a vapor retarder and potentially help identify the source of the moisture.
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